Episode 210: Finding Your Purpose - Football Is Your Job, But It’s Not Who You Are | Kent Chevalier

A steady paycheck can feel like “wisdom” until you realize it is actually fear wearing a suit. That realization sits at the heart of my conversation with Kent Chevalier, the Pittsburgh Steelers team chaplain and the author of Do It Afraid, a book built for leaders who feel called to more but keep hesitating at the edge of the jump.

• a childhood IOU note and how scarcity quietly shapes leadership decisions
• why comfort, familiarity, and responsibility can smother purpose
• the birds' nest story that clarified calling and provision
• “What God initiates, He permeates, and why self-started plans drain us
• LEAP and PRAY as a simple framework for big decisions
• expressing fear without shame and why real men cry out to God
• identity beyond performance and the pressure elite athletes carry
• active waiting through spiritual disciplines instead of doomscrolling
• delayed obedience as a form of disobedience and why Jesus is not a buffet line

Kent takes us back to a childhood moment in western Pennsylvania that planted a scarcity story in his heart, then walks us forward into the very adult struggle of responsibility, comfort, and control. We talk about what holds people back from their God-given purpose, why familiarity can quietly erase a dream, and how God used an unexpected bird's nest on a patio to drive the message home: you are more valuable than the birds, and God can provide when you step out in faith. If you have ever felt stuck between obedience and “being practical,” this will hit home.

We also dig into a simple, repeatable decision-making approach from Kent’s work, including the LEAP framework and the discipline of active waiting. That leads to some of the most honest parts of the conversation: how high performers handle anxiety, why expressing fear is not weakness, and how identity gets tangled up with performance in the NFL and in everyday leadership. Kent shares lessons he has learned alongside Coach Mike Tomlin and Steelers players, plus a direct challenge about obedience: what God reveals is not meant to be negotiated.

🎁 BOOK GIVEAWAY👇

𝙂𝙚𝙩 𝙆𝙚𝙣𝙩 𝘾𝙝𝙚𝙫𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙚𝙧 "𝘿𝙊 𝙄𝙏 𝘼𝐅𝐑𝐀𝐈𝐃" 𝙗𝙤𝙤𝙠:
Type in Comment section: "𝘿𝙊 𝙄𝙏 𝘼𝐅𝐑𝐀𝐈𝐃"

𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 Kent Chevalier👇
➡️ 𝐋𝐢𝐧𝐤𝐞𝐝𝐈𝐧 (primary): https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentchevalier/

➡️ 𝐖𝐞𝐛𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐞: https://www.kentchevalier.com/

➡️ 𝐁𝐎𝐎𝐊: https://www.amazon.com/Do-Afraid-Kent-Chevalier/dp/1969508213/

Thanks for listening in to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.  Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode.  One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review.  You can do that on  Apple podcasts, or rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen.  

Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader Podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations ?  If you would be interested in having me discuss  1:1 or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from Underperforming to Uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you.  Click this link  to set up a FREE CALL to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team)

Until next time, Go and Grow Champions!!

Connect with me 

Transcript

ourage Through The Cross

SPEAKER_00 0:00

For the joy laid before them, he endured the pain at the cross, and he willingly went through it for us so that we could be forgiven and move his kingdom forward here on this curve. And so I want to be obedient to that. I believe that God, especially in the temperature of the culture that we are currently living in, things are heating up to a point where God is looking for men and women of bold faith who will trust God, follow Jesus' example, and do it afraid. Like we can't shrink back any longer in comfort, in familiarity. We gotta go for it.

eet The Steelers Team Chaplain

SPEAKER_01 0:51

This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast. I'm your host, John Gallagher. I've got quite an awesome guest for you today. Uh, he works in one of the most unique offices in the world. He doesn't spend his weekdays in the boardroom or chatting with CEOs, but he spends his Sundays on the sidelines in the locker rooms of one of the most storied franchises in sports history. And my team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, his team as well. Kent Chevalier, the team chaplain for the Pittsburgh Steelers and the author of the transformative new book, Do It Afraid, Unleashing the Courage to Jump Into Your God-given purpose. We're going to talk about that book today and some of the stories associated with it and the impact that he's having. But you know, he's in the business ultimately of holy discomfort. We'll talk about that. Uh, walking alongside athletes and coaches and their families, uh, including the legendary Type Tomlin who wrote the forward of the book, helping them navigate the pressures of the NFL with a foundation of faith. So, Ken Chevalier, I'm so excited to get started chatting with you about the book. Welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Great to have you on the show. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Doing great, man. John, thank you for having me, man. I've been listening to some of your stuff, man. So it's just a real privilege to be invited on here. Uh so thanks for the invitation.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Sure. Well, it's gonna be great. We're gonna have a lot of fun. And even though, you know, I kind of have some of this, I don't know, with that spotlight and being with the Steelers and kind of having a little bit of envy there, I'm not gonna give you a break. I'm gonna start you off with the first question.

he Childhood IOU That Stuck

SPEAKER_01 2:13

I always start my first time guests on the Uncommon Leader podcast. And that's to share a story with uh listeners of something from your childhood, a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person, as a leader, and as a man of faith.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah, and uh you know, we we're talking a little bit off camera. You know, this is actually a part of the book and a part of the driving reason behind it because when I was a little guy growing up in Pittsburgh, Beaver County, uh, my dad worked at the steel mill, uh, Midland. And when the steel industry collapsed here in Pittsburgh, we really struggled uh as a family. My dad bounced from job to job to job, and I knew uh, you know, I knew as a little guy that we were struggling, but there was this one day where I had a paper route and I was trying to make some you know tips and things, and I had this little yellow pouch uh with the black cock cougar's logo on it, where I you know went to you know school, and uh I would use that for my paper out money tips and to give change to the customers. And one day I went in there and I found a little torn piece of paper with my mom's handwriting, and it just simply said, I owe you two dollars. So I owe letter U. And and so all of a sudden that just kind of hit me that, oh my goodness, we are really struggling and we are poor. And there was something in me that day that I think that God recognized that I this little impure seed was planted in me that I vowed that, man, I'm never gonna be poor when I grow up. I'm not gonna struggle to financially care for my family. And it's been a thread throughout my life that has tripped me up. Uh, I call it a weed that as that little seed grew in my life, that weed starting to tighten down. And in the background of my life, man, it started making decisions and I didn't even really know it. Um, but it's something that I think has led to a battle of a call versus you know the comfort that I want in this life. And so it's just been an ongoing battle. So that marked me, that little IOU story from my little being a little paper. I think I was like 10 years old as a paper boy. So yeah, man, that's a story that marked me.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah, you look at some of those things, and again, uh the similarities uh in our stories. My family is also from that area on the uh West Virginia side of the Fort Pitt tunnels, as we talk about it. My mom's dad, my mom's brothers, my dad all worked in the steel mills, either for Weird and Steel or Wheeling Pittsburgh steel. And yeah, those times when that steel industry really started to collapse uh in the late 70s. I mean, those days in the mid-70s, those were some really good times, no doubt about it. But in the when it started to collapse in the late 70s, early 80s, and what was happening, I too remember some of those stories and some of the challenges. I you know, didn't ever think we didn't have, but I certainly remember collecting cans and sitting on the shelf in the laundry room to make sure we had enough to get through the different uh times where the work wasn't there. So I appreciate that story, and I actually I can hear the sound of the little uh clicker, the hole punch on the newspaper boy uh sheets that you had to use to know if you collected each week to get your money done. So fun. Uh, I didn't, I was not a newspaper delivery boy myself, but I just remember that sound when they came to to collect. So I appreciate that from a story. Yeah, outside of that connecting. So many so many great stories from from being a paper boy. So and I think about that. I mean, I I follow a guy, Rory Vaden, and folks on the podcast probably get tired of me saying this sometimes, but that's okay. It's so profound. Is that we're most powerfully positioned to help the person that we once were. That's why I love that story, is that usually when it's something in our childhood that truly impacts uh who we are, uh not just what we do today, but who we are in terms of a person that I love putting it together. So you spent a couple years writing this book, and I kind of listened in on a couple other podcasts. This book, Do It Afraid. Things have changed in your life recently, but you've recognized something, both in your personal life when you put this together, but in the lives of other leaders and families that you

hy Purpose Gets Delayed

SPEAKER_01 6:24

work with. And what is it that you see and hear that holds people back from jumping into their God-given purpose? I mean, that's ultimately what we're talking about here, is living out our purpose.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah, exactly. And I think there's so many different reasons, you know, as far as as people are created uniquely, there's probably a unique reason why people are held back from fulfilling their God-given purpose and and stepping out into that unknown. I think that there's a couple for me were the fact that I was really comfortable in my role. I had a consistent paycheck. And so I think that for many people that they know that there's something that God has told them to do, but we've also been convinced in our culture to chase the paycheck, to chase the corner office, to chase comfort. Um, you know, there's that battle within us that I'm not sure that this job is actually scratching the itch of my purpose, uh, but it's providing a good living uh for my family, which which leads me, I think, to another reason why people are held back is because of the good responsibilities. So, like, you know, having a good job is not a bad thing. Having responsibilities is a good thing, right? But, you know, sometimes, man, the how am I gonna provide for my family, my wife, my kids, you know, I and all of that responsibility begins to weigh us down to stay put. Because if we know that we've got something solid, we've got to take care of our responsibilities, it's gonna hold me back from actually pursuing the dream that I know that God has put into me that's gonna take a risk for me to actually jump. And I don't how am I gonna provide for my wife and my kids? Um, so I I think another thing is familiarity. It holds us back because you know what, we get we just get in that routine of okay, this is what my daily looks like weekly, you know, my annual. And we get comfortable in that familiar spot. And even though like we've got the tug when we lay our head on the pillow at night, we know that we're supposed to be doing something, like that familiarity, because I don't know what that unknown is in the future, but I'm really good with the familiar. So I'm just gonna stay put. And eventually that dream begins to fade into the familiar. And so I think those are a few reasons that hold people back. I mean, we could we could go on and on. I'm sure you've got more reasons as to why people are held back from fulfilling their God-given purpose.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Well, I think uh, you know, let's just kind of own it if I can on my own. And that's that comfort level that existed there. You know, again, as I read the story that that you wrote, and your book is in kind of two parts. The first part is your story, the second part really is some uh pragmatic uh and you know, ultimately frameworks that we can use to recognize it and to overcome it. We'll talk about those here in just a little bit. But I felt my story within that. You know, the comfort of the regular W-2 paycheck that came in, the comfort of having healthcare insurance and you know, the family, the responsibilities of a family, and all those things kept me probably from at least living that out for probably 10 years in terms of how I've looked at it and looked at my story. So I think that's what's going to really uh challenge folks when they read your book. And if you just listen all the way through the end, folks, I'm gonna give you a chance to uh get yourself a free copy of this book as well that I'm gonna give out because I know that folks are gonna love it. But you know, folks are going to see their story in your story. I know I saw my story uh in your story as as you talked about. So comfort is absolutely one of those big things. Complacency is another that I've talked about. It's the uh allure of success. Hey, we're doing good enough right now. I mean, they why try to you know upset that apple cart and understand that we're being uh pulled on for a little bit. And so when I think about what that story was for you, Kent, and I'd love to hear this a little bit, and and I'm gonna uh maybe tee it up just a little bit. And it was the picture or the artwork of the baby birds in the nest. And again, I get emotional because I can share my story as I go along with that.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

But share that story, how you finally recognized and how you uh ultimately made that leap uh into uh where you're I'm still amazed every time that I tell this story, uh, because all I want to do in writing this book in the keynote address that I give around, all I want is this story to point to God's

he Birds Nest And The Calling

SPEAKER_00 10:57

story. And that's really how the book even started, because I I think what's happening in our generation today is that we are not passing on our faith, his story, so his story in our lives to our generations that are coming behind us. Like I don't really know the story of my grandparents and their faith journey. I I just I know tiny little pieces of it. I asked my dad, hey, can you write down some of the things? Uh and I'm glad I did because I've got them on a bookshelf right here, uh, of his journey of faith. And so all that to say with this story, man. I I was 20 years in ministry as a local church pastor, and something just shifted inside of me. I don't, I still don't know how to fully explain it, other than I just knew something was coming. Something shifted, not my pastoral responsibilities. It wasn't like I didn't like my church anymore. In fact, it's still our home church. Um, I'm just not on staff as a pastor there anymore. So it wasn't anything like that. I just, I like to call it my knower. I knew in my knower that God was up to something. And at the same time, I was really hesitant to chase that because the last time that I knew God was up to something, I chased it and it and it crashed. It was bad for Erica and me, our family, it was rough. But I couldn't deny that God was up to something new. So I told God this time around, like, I've learned my lesson. I'm not I'm not going after anything, I'm not initiating anything. You're gonna have to show me and be very clear because I love what I do as a pastor. So I'm not moving until you tell me to move. And it was two years of that kind of frustration of waiting, I know God's up to something. What are you doing? I'm starting to get frustrated when the San Francisco 49ers they traded their tight end to the Pittsburgh Steelers. His name's Vance McDonald. He began to attend the church where I was pastor. And after service, one day he comes after you know, after service and introduces himself and says, Can we talk? Uh and and at that conversation, he told me, I'm brand new to the city. I don't have a pastor here. We don't have a chaplain at the Steelers, and so would you take some time? And as he said that chaplain to the Steelers, I was like, What is that? Like, what does a chaplain do in the NFL? What? Because like I'd seen enough movies, like I had seen a chaplain in the army, the military, that made sense. Uh, I have seen personally chaplains at the hospital. That makes sense. But what does a chaplain do in the NFL? It was just in my know where it was like, but then as he and I got to know each other, it was this understanding of the Steelers used to have a chaplain, but now they didn't for whatever reason. And he was hoping to, you know, gain a relationship with me so that we could just talk about spiritual things and that I might offer him some godly wisdom. And so we did that, got to know each other. Uh, and eventually Vance asked me a direct question. Hey, do you know of anybody that would be willing or want to be you know the Steelers chaplain? And God had been messing with me something, you know, fierce that I was like, Well, do you think I could do that? He goes, Well, I didn't think you'd be interested because you're a pastor of you know the church. And I was like, Well, and I told him the story, God's been messing with me. He goes, Well, dude, let me introduce you to Coach Tomlin. And so I was like, either way, this is gonna be awesome because I get the opportunity to meet with Coach Tomlin, legendary leader, not only in Pittsburgh, but across the country. Uh and so I go to lunch with him and he's vetting me. He says, I would love to, you know, have you come and hang out with the guys and and eventually speak at Minicamp Chapel. So I did, and I loved it. It was like I was lit up about it. But the problem was is that Coach Tomlin said, I'll be in touch. And it took a long time for that, you know, call. When that call eventually came for him to offer me the position, I loved everything that he was laying out his vision for the chaplain role, that he actually wanted a local Pittsburgh couple. So I was like, You want my wife to do this? Like, this is awesome, you know. And he told me everything about the position, and and I loved everything that I was hearing until he said these words. And I have them like ingrained in my brain. He said this uh this position is not hired by the Pittsburgh Steelers. So I would love for you to consider joining the staff of athletes in action. And I knew exactly what that meant. And so, man, I knew that every athletes in action employee, which is the sports arm, ministry arm of crew, campus crusade for Christ, known as formerly, I knew that every person had to raise their salaries, their you know, benefits, their ministry budget, had to raise it all. So I'm going, no way. I'm not, I am not doing this. You know, this is not wise for me to do. And uh, you know, at that moment, I'm having a conversation with God that basically, like, hey man, I got three daughters. You know, I'm staring college right in the face. I got three weddings to plan in the future. Like, this wouldn't be wise. But at that moment, I had a realization that I was just afraid to step out and trust God because I was actually trusting in a paycheck. I was trusting in my position, and I was trusting in a person, me, to provide for my family. And God like punched me in my mouth in the way that He does to get your attention to say, like, oh my gosh, I don't actually trust God. I trust in these things. And so, you know, I told Coach Tomlin, okay, I talk to the leadership of athletes in action, but I was not a fan of raising my, you know, support, all that. So Erica and I, you know, we both kind of shut it down in our minds. But one day, as we're reading the scriptures, praying, we're fasting. God, is this you? Is this an opportunity? I hear Erica scream from outside on our patio, can't get out of here, you know. And I go outside and she is frozen in fear. And next to her, like right here, actually, look at that. Like the fern was moving right next to her. And I thought there was a snake inside. So I'm fearful, like I don't like snakes. So I take a stick and I go to put it inside the fern, and a bird flies out. I look inside and there's a baby bird's nest with three unhatched eggs. So they're, you know, perfectly placed in there. As Erica and I are praying about this decision, and God, is this you? The next few days, the those eggs they hatch, and they're baby birds that were, you know, chirping for their mom. And mom would come down and feed those birds, and daddy would perch himself up on the light pole so that we weren't messing with his kids. He would like, if we got too close, he would like chirp at us. You know, don't mess with my kids, you know. Uh, and so all of a sudden, in that moment, like the words of Jesus right off of the red letters, hey, you know, birds don't store away in barns, they don't, they don't toil, they don't work hard, and yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than a bird? And so this is like a monumental moment where we then say, okay, we're doing this, even though we're afraid, we're going after this, because we trust that God is revealing to us in a living illustration that He will provide every step of the way. So we fly out to Colorado to sign on the dotted line with athletes in action. We became full-time missionaries. I still can't believe that we did it, but we did it. And as we are out there, you know, and I'm sure you know, your listeners, like whenever you make a decision like that, this is where I think the enemy of your soul begins to mess with you big time. You know, you're gonna fail, you're gonna all those lies that begin. Yeah. And then the spiritual warfare just begins to swirl around. It was a once we made that decision, the fear just dropped on us again. Like, what did we do? Well, Erica, you know, we were out in Colorado State University. She goes for a run early in the morning, and she, I didn't know that she had left the hotel room. I was still asleep. And she kind of broke down on the side of the road and was crying and praying to God, just God, I need, I need to know, I'm fearful here. I'm stressed out. I know you're with us, but like I need something to hold on to. And so we go to the the final session that we can for training and worship. And so this giant basketball coliseum, Colorado State University. There's a round stage in the middle. We're on the you know floor, but we, you know, the round stage is here, and we're singing and you know, worship, and we can see that there's a painter who's painting something, but we can't see what he's painting. And the camera on the big jumbotron is not showing it. And so as the music kind of dies down, the camera then pans back purposefully to reveal what the painter had painted. And on that canvas was a picture of a bird's nest with baby birds with their open mouth that there were grapes that were attached to the vine in the bird's mouths. And Erica and I just looked at each other, man, and we were like, Oh my goodness, like out of all the things that this guy could have painted, he painted a bird's nest, baby birds being fed. And we were just like, Man, we know, even though we don't know how this is gonna go for us in the NFL, we've never done anything in the NFL, you know. We knew that God was gonna be with us every step of the way, and he was gonna provide for us every step of the way. So that's the story, man, that like we hold on to when things get tough, when we're still trusting, here we are seven years later, going into our eighth season. We're still trusting God for everything. And that's the story, the monument that we point back to and say, Wow, God, look what you have done. And we can trust that you're gonna do it again tomorrow and the next day and the next day. So that's the God story that uh man, I'm just amazed by still.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

The uh the story just brings chills to my arms right now. I mean, I I knew as I read it, it it did, and it was very emotional for me uh and to hear it again so many times. Look as humans, as leaders, uh certainly and I don't say this, you know, as men that we can do this thing on our own. Uh but to realize that uh God speaks to us in terms of what uh he's doing, and and many people will say, I don't I don't hear his voice. And I actually think that's okay. I don't hear his voice either. But when you're in his word, you can't debate coming across a story in the red font while there's a baby birds out on the porch and ultimately hearing this story. Again, when you're there. My wife and I have a a song that comes on the radio. It's a very similar story. I can see clearly now the rain is gone. Is like that's when you know there's like something going on in our lives that that he's talking to us and letting us know. And every time I hear the song or your story, I get emotional about it. I'm not supposed to cry on my own podcast, but I do because I know he's there for us. There's a quote in your book as well, and then we'll kind of get into your framework to so that folks can continue

hat God Initiates God Sustains

SPEAKER_01 22:26

to learn. I think it's about the stories though, too. And it wasn't yours, but it was one of your mentors that said it that has like really been sitting in my mind for the last few weeks on something that I'm working on. And it says, What God initiates, he permeates. What we initiate, we have to sustain. And that was you know, that was from one of your mentors, but that's been there. What does that quote mean to you in terms of what you're you know, who you are and what your life is?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, I I don't know about your listeners, but like personally, I've run ahead of God. And usually that's where I get in a ton of trouble and things fall apart. Like, you know, hey God, I've got this great idea. And I run with the idea. Can you get in behind this and bless this God? And and if you read the scriptures, you will never, ever, ever see from cover to cover where God actually blesses somebody else's initiation. You know, a lot of the things that we start, like I've done this in my life. We run ahead and and we're trying to keep it alive. Like picture a fire, right? And we're going, you know, to get it, you know, keep it going. And God's the one who's sending the rain. And he's going, I never started that fire. You did. And I need that fire to go out so that I can get you into your God-given purpose over here, right? And so there's so many churches that have been started that God never started. There's so many businesses that have been started that God never started. And yet we ask God to get in behind our idea when the very thing that we're asking him to bless was never his idea in the first place. And so, man, I've learned my lesson so many times now that I'm it's like I'm a little bit uh fearful that God, I don't want to initiate anything because what that means is that I've got to sustain it in my own strength, in my own power, in my own resources, in my own ideas, in my own, in my own, in my own. And I don't have enough in the tank to keep that thing going. But if God initiates it, he promises to permeate it with his presence, with his strength, with his power, with his ideas, with his resources. And we all know that God's not short of cash. He owns a cattle on a thousand hills, right? And so, like, why wouldn't we want to wait for God to initiate? And then when we get our marching orders, yes, sir, I will do whatever you tell me to do because God, if he initiates it, he'll sustain it, he'll permeate it. That's what I want in my life. I've learned my lesson the hard way several times over. I don't want to do it again.

ponsor Break Brand Builders Group

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Hey, Uncle Leaders, hope you're enjoying the episode so far. I believe in doing business with people you like and trust and not just a company name. That's what a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company. Brand Builders Group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists. They'll help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story, and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact. So head on over to CoachJohnGallagher.com slash BBG, as in brand builders group, to schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons. That's CoachJohnGallagher.com slash BBG. Now, let's get back to the episode. It's so funny. I mean, again, thinking back not just to your stories, but stories in the Bible, because I know you mentioned that uh phenomenal worship song, Jesus Take the Wheel by Carrie Underwood, inside of, you know, do we really want him to take the wheel or we do we want to try to control it as we go forward? But the other story, again, uh certainly Noah didn't uh initiate building this big boat and say, I'm gonna start building it, and God will you get behind me and do this? No, that was that was the other way around. Yeah, and there are many stories like that throughout scripture that continue to tell us that. That was just one, the first one that came to my mind. And so look, you've been through this in life, man. You've been 20 20 plus years uh in a pastoral role, uh, the last seven in a role that you know God opened your eyes to and you never really thought was there. And now you've decided to kind of bring this uh story and your framework that you use, or maybe you ran the story and it developed the framework into this book, Do

hy He Wrote Do It Afraid

SPEAKER_01 26:31

It Afraid. And so, you know, why write the book now? Who did you write it for? And and maybe we've been talking about that a little bit in terms of who you wrote it for, but why write it now, especially?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yeah, so I I originally started writing this for my daughters. Like I wanted them to see our faith history. And then I in in the process, I just, you know, we work with 20s and 30s somethings, you know, players, you know, these young men and young women. So Erica walks alongside all the wives and girlfriends, and you know, I'm working with 20 somethings, and I spend a lot of time just sharing the lessons that I've learned along the way, whether they're lessons from failure or I've watched other people succeed. And like, bro, you know, my mentor said this, and like I think we all should, you know, do this. And so I started writing it for my daughters who are now in so 24, 22, 18 for them. But then it started to broaden out of like, you know what? I I think you know, the 20-something that we work with, man, there's there's some stuff here that we've learned when we failed in our 20s and 30s that they're good lessons to pass on to the 20s and 30s that we are working with now. So it broadened out. Uh and then I just began to realize with the God-given platform, you know, because people who love the Steelers, who love, you know, you know, are part of churches and all this, we're asking AI for things in this generation. You know, we're we're searching YouTube, but we're not sitting down and having coffee with people and asking them for their wisdom and their stories of what God has done in their life. And so I began to picture this as a coffee conversation as I wrote it out to people. And these things, the leap framework. So, you know, the second part of the book is called Leap Before You Jump, L-E-A-P. And that's a framework. So L-E-A-P, and then P-R-A-Y is an eight-part framework of okay, how do I know that this is actually a good decision? How do I, how can I be confident when I'm faced with, okay, where am I going to go to college? Who am I going to marry? Am I supposed to change careers? You name it, some of these like weighty decisions, how are we making those? And do you have a God-honoring process? Do you have a way that you know with confidence, okay, I'm being called to do this? It's not just whatever the heck I want to do, because that's initiating. And so I'm going to have to sustain it. So, how do I know that God's initiating this and that he's going to permeate this? Well, that's what the leap framework is all about, to help people be confident. Okay, God's the one who's leading this, and I'm going to yield to his call.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Leap. I'll go through the steps real quick. Folks gonna have to read the book to get all of them. Let God lead, express your fears, ask for wisdom. You touched on this a little bit, and and then uh and pray through it. So that's those first four components.

ow Leaders Learn To Name Fear

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah. I just want to touch on one, and one that's uh I'll say not natural for leaders. Uh, and I don't think any of them are natural, and I think that's part of the uh supernatural of who God is, but uh expressing your fears. You had a quote in there from Max Wukeda says, make fear a visitor, not a resident. And you also noted within that space that real men cry. How are you helping a tough athlete uh and or frankly, uh, you know, in this case, uh leadership as well, uh chat as a pastor or others you get a chance to chat with, high-powered CEO or leader, to that it's okay to express their fears.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah. I I I've now met, dude, I I've had a crazy journey, 30 years of following Jesus, and and doing that has taken me into all kinds of crazy rooms that I'm it's like, okay, God, I don't feel like I belong in this room, but now I'm starting to understand. No, you've made me to influence this room. And so whether they are professional athletes, you know, these men are extremely good at what they do. They're the 1% of the 1% of the 1%, the best in the world, but they still have fear. You know, when you when you think about uh, you know, a CEO, a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher, incredible leaders, we all struggle with something. And so I don't care who you are, you struggle with something when you're laying your head on the pillow at night and your anxious thoughts begin to start going and your heart is heavy, and you've got worry and anxiety over things. And I just want to normalize the conversation to say, you know what, man, I'm a real dude, you're a real dude, and I know you got fear. So I'm gonna just start getting public with my fears and saying, I struggle with this. Anyone else? And what I have found out, especially in this space, is is because that kind of conversation is not really normal. We don't usually get to that layer. But just by simply showing up and walking alongside and asking those types of questions of these elite men, I've recognized that every one of them, they struggle with something. They've got fear of some sort, anxiety. You know, think about an NFL athlete. Performance anxiety is one of the deepest struggles because think about this every part of their day is filmed, from how they lift weights to how they practice every snap. It's not just on Sunday when they're playing the game that they get evaluated. Every day of their life. So if they have a bad day, if they have one bad play, it's getting evaluated, talked about, reviewed. And then sometimes because you had that bad play and you had it twice, now you have lost your position. So performance anxiety in the NFL is huge. And here's usually what happens, and I'm sure none of your listeners uh you know struggle with this, that their identity is tied to their performance and to their job. So if they lose that position, you know, if they you know fall down the charts of starting position and maybe they fall to the practice squad, their identity begins to take a beating. But I'm sure nobody else on this call struggles with, you know, that I am what I do. And I've just I've loved sitting under the leadership of Coach Tomlin where he constantly reminds these men you are not what you do. Football is your job, but it's not who you are. And that's a hard thing for all of us. Whatever I am not a chaplain, I'm not a pastor. That's what I do, right? I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a businessman, I'm not a teacher. That's what I do for a job, but it's not who I am. We in our culture today have allowed that to define us. And I think that as to get back to your question, real men cry out. I I have this story of like as a kid, man, I was just an emotional. I'm still an emotional dude. I'm a passionate guy. Uh, and sometimes the tears just come. And I was always like weirded out by that. It felt like real men don't cry because that's what I saw in our culture. None of my coaches, no, none of the guys on TV, you know, all of that. But I did. And I'm like, is there something wrong with me? But there I began to understand as I matured and as I grew up, you know, especially this story in the scriptures where you see a father cry out to Jesus on behalf of his son, and there was a purpose behind his crying. And he took his crying to the perfect person. He cried out to Jesus. And I think I just want to help men be able to get to that layer to recognize all of us deal with something, but are you taking that something to the perfect person? Or are you just trying to shove it down and deal with it on your own? Because it's like a beach ball. Whatever that anxiety, whatever that fear, we try to stuff it down in the water. Have you ever tried to do this where you put a ball, a beach ball in the water, and it just pops right back up? And that's what happens with our feelings, with our fears, usually at the wrong time and on the wrong people. Like as a young dad, I was dealing with some stuff internally. And as a dad, I would sometimes take it out on my daughters. And I'm like, why do I do that? Well, it's because I'm not actually dealing with the stuff that's inside of me, and it's gonna come out of me at the weirdest and most awful times on mostly the people that I love. So I don't want to be that guy. So I want to train guys to actually cry out to God with what's going on inside of them. We gotta start talking about that kind of stuff because everyone is dealing with it.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Great preach, Ken. Folks, look, that last those last four minutes, they're worth the entire episode to to go back through and listen through again. I I appreciate that. Um really good. I wanna I wanna keep going. The other thing you kind of touched on already in the A, the ask for wisdom. You know, I love the distinction. Information is cold hard facts, wisdom is lessons shared over coffee.

ctive Waiting Without Doomscrolling

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Look, the side of this within that is active waiting. What is active waiting?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah, I think I think when many of us when when we know that God's up to something, but we almost can't put our finger on it. So for to use my story, for three years, God, I know you're doing something, but what are you doing? And I get this opportunity to talk with Coach Mike Tomlin, but then I don't hear back from him for weeks. Like, what's what are you doing? And so it's in those moments where we can navel gaze, we can get really down and depressed. God, things aren't working out for me. What are you doing? Come on, God, you know, and we can sit on our couch and we can doom scroll, right? Some of the times to get our eyes up and onto the one that we're crying out to, it's not going to be found, you know, doom scrolling. It's actually gonna be found in those secret places. So I talk about, and there's so many ways to do this, but as people who want to grow in our faith and mature in our relationship with God, especially in uncertain times, this thing active waiting, where am I purposefully practicing the spiritual disciplines to draw close to God during this uncertain time? Because if I'm just doom scrolling and allowing that to fill my time, the time is really gonna go slow. But if I repurpose the wait by, okay, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna do what God has already told me to do. And along that way, I might bump into what's gonna push this forward. So things like, man, go serve in secret. Don't let anybody know. Don't take your, you know, I work with you know, 20s and 30s, and often what we do is we serve like this, you know. We put and hey, look, look then look how I'm serving. And we know from the scriptures that all you're gonna get is this from the likes, you know. But when we serve in secret, when we serve God and we serve others in secret, God's going, I can work with that, you know. There's other things too uh in that chapter that I've just learned spiritual discipline-wise, when you're waiting on God to do something, maybe it's time for you to pull away for a weekend. Just get out of your normal routine and go away, invest in a weekend and do a prayer retreat, fasting, praying, walking, you know, without the distraction of phones and digital devices. Let's get out into God's creation. I love how Mark Batterson says that a change of pace plus a change of pace equals a change of perspective. And so, in our active waiting, see, I'm not sitting back on my couch, I'm actually pursuing God by getting away with him for a weekend and just okay, God, what do you want to download to me during this waiting season? Because we know from the scriptures, there are so many times where it's in the waiting that God is working on us. And as he's playing chess 10 steps ahead for our future, there's work that he needs to do inside of us to prepare us for that purpose that we're not yet ready for. And he's got to do some soul work at the heart level, at character and integrity, those types of things, because he needs that to be prepared for our future. And when we get that position, you know, when you think about David, who was anointed, you know, you know, you get this picture of as a shepherd boy, he was anointed to be king. But there was 14 years of waiting in the pasture to prepare him for the palace. So there was so much work that needed to be done in David's heart, and therefore his purpose during that time was to draw close to the Lord, not only for himself to be prepared, but also think about this to prepare us because he wrote some of those beautiful hymns that we know as the psalms that draw so many of us during waiting periods. So it was so purposeful of his preparation, not only for him, but for us when he took that palace 14 years later. Uh so that's active waiting. That's the principle. Hard to do, but I think we need to.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Yeah, we can touch on as leaders, as humans, we can rationalize some of those things really easily too. The doom scrolling, we can rationalize it and make up stuff like oh, if I scroll through, I want to find something as I as I do that. Yeah, and to your point though, that diving into the word, listening to what's being said, you know, active waiting on a retreat, that sounds kind of like different, but changing the place, changing the pace, love that will change your perspective. That's right. Uh let's really offend some

bedience Without Negotiation

SPEAKER_01 40:17

people, okay? Last one, then we're gonna have some fun. Uh uh, uh-oh. Another quote from Dave Buring. I think this guy's had a huge impact on you, and you had actually a whole chapter in your book, kind of was one of his chapters. Yeah. What God reveals is not meant to be negotiated, it's meant to be obeyed. That's one thing. And he said, and then you wrote, Delayed obedience is disobedience. Yeah. Like, I'll get to that later. Okay, I hear you guys, but I got some important stuff to do over here first. Talk to me about those two quotes.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

So I heard this story, and it'll make the point. There was a young little kid who was growing up in a third world country where snakes were very uh hostile, and uh it's often heard that larger snakes would devour little children out in the wild as their meal. And so the dad taught the little son this lesson. Whenever you hear me say, Come, I need you to come immediately, be obedient because I'm looking out for you. Right? So the young boy is playing under a tree, and the father from his home can see a large snake beginning to climb down the tree with his mouth open over the young boy, and the father says, Come to his son, and immediately he runs. And the snake was not able to harm him, eat him, kill him. Right. And I heard this story, and at the end of that, you know, it was a teaching on God being obedient to God, and that was the line. I can't remember who said it, but delayed obedience is disobedience. Can you imagine if that young boy said, Well, why, Dad? I don't, I'm playing now. I don't want to do what you tell me to do. And, you know, just delayed obedience would have led to him being killed. So it's this concept, man. Like I think sometimes in the church, so if I really want to offend people, uh, we know exactly what God has already told us to do. There's so many commands in the scriptures that we do not have to pray about if God is telling us to do it. It's what it means to be a follower of Jesus, to obey God's voice, to obey, you know, Jesus said, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you. In our culture today, I think what we've done is we've made the teachings of Jesus a buffet line. And we pick and choose what it is that we want to follow. And oftentimes, you know, I'm not a big vegetable guy. I pass over those things that I don't like to eat. Okay, like I understand that you said that, but I'm not really interested in living that out. Uh and so God's teachings, Jesus' teachings, are not a buffet line. And that's where the concept of what God has revealed already. We have the scriptures. What God has revealed is not meant to be negotiated, it's meant to be obeyed. And so in my life, I want that. I struggle with that, just like I'm sure everybody does. Um, but I want to get you know better with obeying the Lord because you know, Jesus is either Lord of my life, all of it, or he's not Lord of any of it. If I still keep back those things that, well, it's my way, I want to do it this way, God. It's what when they oppose the teachings of Jesus. So I I hope that that makes sense to everybody. Like I think the teachings of Jesus, you know, the teachings of Paul in the New Testament, they punch in the mouth. Who likes to get punched in the mouth? Paul's beast, Paul doesn't mess around. Yeah. And the reason that he Hit so hard is because God has the best definition of best for our life. If we would just get that, we wouldn't get punched so much, you know. And I'm not a guy who believes that man, if I just follow Jesus and everything that he said, that my life is gonna go easy. I mean, our leader, Jesus, it did not go easy for him, you know. It was hard on him to do the will of God, his father, yet, and this is kind of the culmination of I believe in that garden that Jesus had a choice to make. Am I gonna obey or not? And when he asked God, his father, is there any other way that this cup could be taken from me? And when God, his good father, answered his prayer, he told his one and only son, No. And so Jesus had a choice, and I believe he did it afraid, his human side, like, I'm sweating blood here, man. I'm so anxious, and like I don't want to go through with this blood for the joy laid before him, he endured the pain of the cross and he willingly went through it for us so that we could be forgiven and move his kingdom forward here on this earth. Um, and so I want to be obedient to that. Uh, I believe that God, especially in the temperature of the culture that we are currently living in, things are heating up to a point where God is looking for men and women of bold faith who will trust God, follow Jesus' example, and do it afraid. Like we can't shrink back any longer in comfort, in familiarity. We gotta go for it, man.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Amen. Love how you shared that. I love the action, the call to action, Kent, in terms of making that happen. And I believe you've done a great job inside the book. Folks, you gotta go out and get a copy of this. Um, Kent, how do folks get in touch with you? Uh, and also where do you want them to go to get a copy of the book? It's gonna be, you know, we're doing this interview before it's released. By the time it comes about, it'll be right around release time. Where do you want them to go and get it?

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Yeah, man. So I I mean I'm all over social media and so people can find me there, but I'm pointing everybody, uh, the things about the book to KentChavalier.com, uh and you'll see it. It'll be right on that front page, highlighting, you know, where people can find it, you know, wherever books are sold, that's where it is. Um, all the information is at KentChavalier.com.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Excellent. We're gonna get them out there uh with the link in the show notes and in the social media postings that we do. Ken, I'm gonna leave you with the last word, a question that I always ask my first-time guests, and I think uh you probably uh have said this, but I'll ask you to summarize it again. I'm gonna give you a billboard. You can put it anywhere you want to. You can post it on uh the screen at Accrocher Stadium when renegade's just after Renegade plays at the end of the third quarter each time. But uh what's the message that you want to put on that billboard and why do you put that message

eflect The Glory Final Billboard

SPEAKER_01 46:49

on there?

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Yeah, I mean, I'm this is a great question. How do you sum up on just what here's what I would say, and this is obviously do it afraid, uh, but I think if I were to say another one, uh, I would say deflect the glory. This is another life mantra that has come out of this season of look at what God has done and the idea of we in our culture have been, we've just been told it's about us for way too long. And news flash, our lives created in the image of God were never meant to be about us. And so deflect the glory when we get the accolades, when we get the success, when we get the whatever, you know, I I teach this to the Steelers players. It came out of an experience with the on the sidelines with the Steelers players as I heard people worshiping these men and wanting them to sign their babies. I'm like, okay, we've gone way too far as a culture. But it it was this concept of guys, you would be really wise to get that glory off of you because you're not built for it. You and to bend the knee before God with the other team, come out at, you know, after the 50. Let's all pray and deflect that glory back to God where it belongs, and also hand in hand, to be able to deflect that glory to our teammates and to recognize that this is bigger than me. So it's you know, deflect the glory is all about God's first, others are second. I'm third in all of this, so I'm gonna deflect all that glory back to where it belongs.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Kent Chevalier, author of Do It Afraid, Man of God. I so appreciate you've been a gift to the listeners of the Uncommon Leader podcast. Certainly your book's been a gift to me, and I wish you the best going forward in whatever it is that you leap and go after. So thank you again for being a guest. Thanks for having me on, John. God bless you, man. Hey, Uncommon Leaders, how about that conversation?

hare The Show And Book Giveaway

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Loved it. Kent Chevalier, the chaplain for the Pittsburgh Steelers. So, yeah, I'm a little bit biased. I'm a Steeler fan. That's my team, and I was glad to get a chance to chat with him. But I just love how Kent shared with regards to uh his framework of leap and ultimately being able, inside of that, being able to express your fears, the emotion that he has, the emotion that it stirred in me. I hope that it stirred that same emotion in you. And if it did, uh please go out there and uh share this episode with others who need to hear it. That's how we get it in the hands of other leaders to learn more. But also promised you a chance at the start to get a free copy on me of Kent's book, Do It Afraid. So if you comment on this episode and you put Do It Afraid in the comments and let me know what is that fear that you are working on to overcome and how this uh episode has helped you with that, I'll put your name in the drawing for a copy of that and uh hopefully get one in your hands. Folks, I hope that you're doing well. I hope you continue to grow, and until until next time, go and grow champions.