The Uncommon Leader Podcast

Episode 190: Unconditional Power - Achieve Results, Not Just Work with Steven Gaffney

• John Gallagher • Episode 190

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In this brand-new episode of the Uncommon Leader Podcast, John Gallagher Jr. sits down with Steven Gaffney to explore the mindset shift that separates high-performing teams from high-achieving ones.

John shares how leaders must evolve—not just change—to meet the demands of today’s chaotic world. From creating safe spaces for feedback to mastering mood discipline and honest communication, this episode is packed with practical strategies and personal stories that will challenge and inspire leaders of leaders.

Key takeaways include:

Why achievement matters more than effort
The power of evolving beyond complacency
How to get the unsaid, said
Creating feedback-rich environments
Leading with Unconditional Power

Whether you’re coaching teams, leading organizations, or growing champions, this episode will help you shift from performance to impact.

🎧 Listen now and share with a leader who needs this message.
📘 Learn more at coachjohngallagher.com
📲 Connect with John on LinkedIn: @CoachJohnGallagher

📘 Learn more about Steven Gaffney:
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevengaffneycompany/ 
🌐 Website: https://stevengaffney.com/ 
📺 YouTube: @stevengaffneycompany

#UncommonLeader #LeadershipDevelopment #ExecutiveWisdom #UnconditionalPower #HighAchievingTeams #FaithDrivenLeadership #Teamwork #MindsetMatters #GrowingChampions

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SPEAKER_01:

Don't use the word change, use the word evolved. If you tell you to change something, somebody goes, well, what's wrong with the way we've done it before? But if you say evolved, who can disagree with that? There is no such thing as status quo.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey Uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast. I'm your host, John Gallagher, and have I got a fabulous guest for you today. Have you ever had a challenge working with your teams and understanding if they're achieving what you need them to do and some of the challenges they're running into? Not accepting, not looking for the opportunities that they really have and growing in the areas that they need to. Our guest today, Steve Gaffney, has written the book on unconditional power, and he's going to talk about that today and ultimately have a chance to tell us some of the things that he's worked on over the years to help teams be more performing versus achieving in that. And we'll talk about that definition. But Steve, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. How are you doing today? Good. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. I I know we had a chance to really chat as we get started here with some of the things that the listeners are going to be ready for, and I know they're going to find a good deal of value in it today. Let's start right off the bat, though, right with unconditional power and ultimately how you delineate between performing teams and achieving teams. What is the difference and help our listeners understand what they should be looking for?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'm a big fan of making distinctions that are important, people often don't think about. And so everybody talks about high-performing teams, but I think in today's work world, it's not good enough. It's about high achieving teams, and really our framework is consistently high achieving teams. But here's the key difference the word performing can be confused with hard work versus achieving is about results. And we're all paid to produce results, not necessarily work hard. Some people might say, okay, I kind of get it, but think about it this way: as leaders, sometimes you might push on somebody to change and they and they often may respond with, Well, what do you want me to do? I'm working hard. And of course, we're not challenging somebody's work ethic. That's not the problem. It's about producing results. And in today's world where there's a lot of chaos, disruption, all kinds of things, it is about making those changes because it's all about producing results. So achievement, results, performance, hard work, and it's really about what is it going to take to achieve those outcomes and results.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. I've heard before, oftentimes don't mistake activity with results. And so if we're able to coach individuals not just to change the behaviors that they need to, but to your point, achieve the results that are expected inside of the organization, it frankly is a little bit of a double win. And I like that in terms of understanding that it's not about working hard. It's not about working smarter either. It's about understanding what you need to do to achieve the results that you're held accountable for. And leaders, they know this. I mean, they're going to be held accountable for the performance and achievement of those who report to them as well. So they better be achievers as well that are leading those groups. Steve, I know that this is go ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I know I'm interrupting, but there's something also that's pertinent about this, is there's a lot of things that are going on. And sometimes people might say, but I have achieved. And my and our comeback is, yes, but we have to change as an organization. We have to evolve. In fact, I can give people another tip. Don't use the word change, use the word evolve. If you say I'm going to change something, somebody goes, Well, what's wrong with the way we've done it before? But if you say evolve, who can disagree with that? It's about, you know, if we're not progressing in life or regressing, there is no such thing as status quo. So a different frame is about evolving, but it still comes down to, yeah, it was achieving, but now we have to achieve different things.

SPEAKER_00:

Steve, you touched on something that I've really been, you know, I'll use a term struggling with myself at times inside of that evolving, is that natural inclination that we as human beings have to just say it's good enough. And ultimately, we know that that results in complacency and we get stagnant. But that that word evolve absolutely, to me, indicates a continuous improvement type mindset that I'm always looking to get a little bit better. I have this healthy discontent, if you will, for the status quo and where I am today. And as leaders, we know that if we rest on our successes of the past, uh we're gonna be in we're gonna be in a world of hurt going forward. Steve, you've spent years developing this. You've written, I think the number was six different books, and you've got two or three more in the mix that are coming out. And this, you know, has evolved for you over the course of lifetime. One of the questions I always ask, especially first-time guests, is going back into their childhood and how they really got kind of started. So I'd like you to tell our listeners to what's a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader?

SPEAKER_01:

Great question. When I think back to my childhood, I don't know how if it impacts me today or it's I've evolved. And so, but I can look at that as the root cause. And here's where I'm headed with this. I didn't start speaking until I was three and a half. It was things were off. I mean, I could speak, but the words weren't coming out correctly. So my uh parents took me to a doctor, and uh, actually, this isn't politically correct, but it's what happened. And the doctor said, Oh, your kid's mentally retarded. Back then, that's what they said. Again, not politically correct, but it is what it is. That's what the doctor said. My mom decided to get a second opinion because my grandmother was a teacher and said, Hey, we've got to get a second opinion. There's more to that story, but in essence, um, it turns out my ears were blocked, and so out of infections and whatnot. So that got corrected. But then as a result, I had to go through some speech therapy and I went to Easter Seals. Some people are familiar with that organization. And the reason why that impacted me was because at that age, I decided that I was just stupid, you know. Not that anybody told me that, my parents never did, but I, you know, I was like, look at what I'm doing, you know, and it kind of just it impacted me. So what I ended up doing was working extra hard. And I did really well in school, but it's because I worked really, really hard at it. But here's what's really interesting about today the audience I address are scientists, engineers, technical folks, a lot of people who don't, you know, communications kind of touchy feeling, they don't like that. But I can immediately identify with that audience with the kind of awkwardness or if you're feeling like you're not connecting, because out of that early experience, that actually shaped me. And also it was hard for me to make friends and stuff like that. And I'm saying this, not oh, feel sorry for me, but I'm definitely a product of this industry. So personal development, I it's impacted me. And a lot of the strategies I've used was or developed was because I wanted to figure out a strategy that I could that I could do. So it's all about building teamwork and whatnot. But anyway, that's the root cause back wave back then.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and I love that again. Again, we talked about that before we hit the record button, is that oftentimes we are most we're best positioned to help the person that we once were, right? And those are things, those are stories that exist, whether again, politically correct. They didn't know what that meant uh when we were kids in terms of understanding that, but ultimately recognizing that you know you had to overcome something pretty significant, uh, not just physically, but also, frankly, probably emotionally as well, as you uh grew up through that, that impacted you, that through your story, you're able to help others deal with many of those different things. I think that's what really makes it powerful in our world in terms of coaching and consulting, is helping that get through there. So, Steve, the latest book you had come out, Unconditional Power, a formula for thriving in any situation, no matter how frustrating, complex, and unpredictable. Why did you write that book now? And uh, who did you write it for?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I wrote it starting for me. Remember, I was just saying about I developed a lot of strategies around but first using it on myself and realizing that probably other people feel have dealt with this. And so here's the whole point of the book. The point is about when we're in a good mood, we're smarter, right? And so how do we make ourselves in a good mood? Well, I've suffered from moods. I wasn't like, you know, clinically depressed, but I I would get triggered and I would get down. And I noticed that, you know, it would take me a little bit of time, sometimes a few days on something bouncing back or whatever, various times. But there's some people they bounce back like that. I don't know if you have one of those friends, but I do, like Willie Jolly, he's a really great motivational speaker. He's always authentically in a good mood. Things happen, but he bounces right back. So I started to study what is it about some people that can bounce right back and other people that can't, and then what's the difference? And then as leaders, because we have to make sure everybody else is in a good mood, and I'm not talking about, you know, again, touchy-feely way. I'm just morale, you know, thinking positively, moving forward. What do we actually do? And so I studied and came up with nine strategies that are in the book, and all those strategies I can tell you that work because I use it on me. And here's an example intentional disruption. We all get down in life. But the question you want to ask yourself is what would you suggest? That's you could ask it of others and yourself. All right, stuff happens. What are we gonna do about it? You know, when I went through cancer, okay, I can't change that I had cancer, but I could change on how I responded to the cancer. So I'm fine now, but you know, going through recession, all kinds of stuff. We're all faced with challenges, but are we wallowing in the negativity or the challenge? Are we looking for the opportunity? And so that's an example of intentional disruption, which is one of the strategies in the book.

SPEAKER_00:

You I love that. And I wanted to touch on those strategies. Even before that, though, I want to talk about because I mood discipline in terms of what you have. You've got this power continuum that you developed. But you know, this the three steps that you that you talk about, you feel powerless, it's conditional, or you feel powerful when you move to the left or right in terms of that space. How do you help leaders recognize first what's getting in their way when it comes to their mood?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we have to recognize about these three moods. So let me kind of back up because you, as you touched upon it, which is so critical. The framework of the book is that I've identified three overarching moods. The first type of mood, which we've all been in, we can self-identify, is feeling powerless, right? Something happens, and powerless is where we say to ourselves, what difference can I make? I'm only one person. Even as leaders, I've worked with a lot of CEOs, admirals, and generals, and at times it can feel very lonely. And it's like, well, yeah, I need to change all of the organization, but I'm only one person. Or somebody is maybe not the leader. And then again, you know, what can I do? I'm only one person, or one person in my marriage, or, you know, one person in a with a friendship or whatever, you know, feeling powerless. The second type of mood is conditionally powerful. That's where we recognize we have power, but it's conditional on other people, things, items. An example would be when people say, I can do that as long as that other department cooperates. I can do this as long as I have the right talent. You know, John, I can do that as long as we have the right funding, as long as we have the right leadership, as long as we have the right marketing. That doesn't sound that bad, but really what I'm doing is I'm creating an excuse. Although those conditions are legitimate, I'm giving away my power. But the desirable move is the third one. And that's where I realize that great leaders are unconditionally powerful. What I mean by unconditionally powerful is they recognize those conditions, but they spend a hundred percent of their energy on what they're going to do about it. So if the market's down, if the market's up, if you know, if we're growth, what do we do? You know, focusing on what we're gonna do. You lose a customer, spending 100% of your energy on what you're gonna do about it rather than oh, I can't believe this happened to me, and wallowing in again the the problem. So the desirable mood is unconditionally powerful. And that's what we want to do is have ourselves and others get to that space.

SPEAKER_00:

Steven, I love that. And you know, as you talked about that, I I was talking back to the story that you shared inside of the book as well and the the cancer diagnosis that you went through, you know, several years ago. My guess is you went through all these moods when that happened as well. Was that something that occurred for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, my clients and a lot of people who have read the book and and people where I've taught this say what they appreciated about this distinction is you can self-identify. That a lot of distinctions, it kind of makes us feel awful to identify with that. An example would be victim, right? There's all this victim stuff. Well, people say I'm not a victim, I am, whatever, but you can identify, we can all identify, and me too, which is feeling powerless at times. There's no value judgment. I have felt powerless. We do feel powerless. Other times we do feel conditionally powerful, right? Um well, I gotta accomplish these goals, but I sure hope I have the right talent or I hope I have the right people around me, or I hope that uh that customer says yes on that big uh that big proposal. So those are, but the desirable mood is to be unconditionally powerful. And so when I say the desirable, it we can identify, but the question is then what's it going to take? Because really, when you identify, no one wants to feel powerless. We often reluctantly feel resigned to feel that way. So the neat thing that people have said about the book, among many, many things, but is you can I self-identify and then you see what to do to get yourself in an unconditionally powerful state.

SPEAKER_00:

When you think about that, and you mentioned through the book many different stories, you protect uh the names of those individuals. But do you have one? And we'll talk about your strategy, a couple of your strategies here in a little bit as well, but a specific story with a client uh where you're most proud of that you've worked with over time as well, who's made that transition from you know powerless to unconditionally powerful.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'll give you an example. So there's I have a client, I mean, there's many, many clients. In fact, I was just on a call this morning on a coaching call around helping leader change the whole mindset of her department. But an example of a client that uh we have among many is where they actually took that. Remember I was saying about performance and achievement? First, they took that whole simple distinction and they said, we're gonna stop doing about performance, we're gonna do about achievement. And I'll come back to the powerless in a moment and powerful. Uh but what they ended up doing, really interesting, is they said, Are we performing or achieving? And so they looked at their entire bureaucracy and cut out all the stuff that was performance. Instead of performance reviews, why not do achieving reviews? You know, and things like that, a different focus. And then they also took this distinction and they went throughout the entire organization, they made it mandatory reading for various leaders, and they actually use this terminology, and so they're very sensitive to conditional mindset so that they can move to unconditionally powerful. Because here's the thing that people have said when you become aware of these distinctions, you you're able to help out other people. A lot of times people feel conditionally, but they've never identified it that way. So they just kind of live in this conditional world, but they're thinking they're powerful. But when we see there's like this third dimension, unconditionally powerful, we move in that way. So, right now, that client constantly reminds their entire workforce on that. And there's going through a lot of changes as well. But that's an example. I mean, there's many, many times I was with an organization last week and changing the team from being kind of conditional to unconditional, powerful. But anyway, I don't know if that's I love that.

SPEAKER_00:

And again, as I think about that, the economy leaders, hope you're enjoying the episode so far. I believe in doing business with people you like and trust and not just a company name. That's why a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company. Brand Builders Group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand, are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists. They'll help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story, and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact. So head on over to CoachJongGallagher.com slash BBG, as in brand builders group, schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons. That's coachjohngallagher.com slash BBG. Now, let's get back to the episode. That was one of the strategies that I want to talk about too was the awareness. And you have that as the first strategy. You've got to be aware of the mood, if you will, that you're in if you get started. How have you helped others be aware of that?

SPEAKER_01:

By by learning these three different moods. So, for example, I, you know, when I was starting to create this stuff and studying people, right? Everybody said, you know, some people feel powerful, motivated, but I was like, what is it? And then I started to identify with that, and I could identify with that. And so then you so bringing awareness. So one of the strategies in the book is make the unaware aware. And making the unaware aware is letting your entire organization be aware of it. So here's an example of what I mean. I had a client who took that distinction, and people came into his office and were complaining about an operational problem. And he said, Okay, where are we at on this continuum? He just asked it. And people said, Oh, we're being conditional. And then all he said was, How would we approach this problem if we're being unconditionally powerful? And he facilitated a conversation. He said, actually, within about five, 10 minutes, they had come up with solutions and the team moved out. He didn't give them the solution. He just reminded them and brought awareness around that distinction. So that would be an example.

SPEAKER_00:

No, and I love that as an example because many times it's the unrealized potential that exists inside of an individual that they just can't see. Right. And to be to your point, they hand over their power, if you will, to some condition that exists. Well, I'll never be able to do that because of X, or I'll never be able to, and it's those limiting beliefs that exist inside of their space. And to your point, I I believe one of the most uh advantageous uh skills that a leader has is the ability to help someone realize the gap between you know where they are and where they could be, where their potential really identifies where they could be. So to help them become aware of it and then only ask them a question where they get to the answer, if you will, uh on their own is pretty powerful. And if you're able to do that, Steve, that's that's really uh says a bunch for your leadership skills as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I was you're saying such an important point is to having the conversation, talking to them and helping them see the potential. And that really comes down to the a reminder I've found over the years is the biggest problem in the workplace and in teams and organizations is lack of honest communication. And what I mean by that is not about the ethics, but it's about what people don't say to each other. People don't give that feedback, they or they bring people down, they just tell people what they can't do or the problem, but they don't say, I see so much potential in you, or whatever it is. But getting that unsaid said, like here's an interesting frame. Have a really up or I found over the years is have a really blunt but caring conversation. Give that person feedback and then say to them, uh, look, I know you can do this. I believe in you. Somebody said years ago, let other people borrow your eyes until they can see it for themselves. Let other people borrow your eyes until they can see it for themselves. And I love that because great lead, that's the vision. So saying to somebody, Well, I don't know I could do that, is you say to that person, you're playing small. I believe in you and I know you can do it. And I'm not gonna let up until you see that greatness because it benefits us all. That's having the tough conversation, but leaving them in an optimistic, motivated fashion.

SPEAKER_00:

Steve, you touched on, I mean, the blunt but caring conversation, you know, the definition of candor, if you will. Uh and you like to use two by two frameworks in your book, and we'll talk about those another one here at energy, but that blunt but caring is the two by two framework. If you only deliver that feedback bluntly without caring, you're gonna be seen as a bully. Okay, there's no doubt about it. You're gonna you're gonna be put into a spot where like, what is in the world? But if you only deliver caring feedback, being nice to them without being blunt, pointing out what you see as the gap, that's where you really run into a problem as well. You're being really nice to them, but nobody's gonna grow, and then you're not gonna grow as well because again, they're on your team. And so the leader who has the ability to be both blunt but caring, I often refer to it as truth with grace, okay, is the one that's going to have the largest impact. It goes back to that performance review that I had 20 plus years ago that I talked to you before we hit the record button here that said I had a mentor who was giving me blunt feedback, no doubt about it, true feedback, but delivered in such a way that I knew that he cared about me as well. And that put me in a position where I had a choice. I had to choose back to your even three points. I could remain powerless or conditional there or to take responsibility what I wanted to do to grow. I knew that he was going to support me, and that's the leader we need to be. Absolutely. Something else too.

SPEAKER_01:

It's like we need to ask people for feedback. And that, you know, and you know, I there's a theme I kind of want to make sure uh hopefully it's coming across is I teach this stuff with great passion because I've used the strategies because I've messed up so many times. I'll give you an example. The value of asking feedback and creating a safe space for people to tell you the truth. But then are we ready for it? So some years ago, uh I had an employee leave and uh who was great. She was an excellent EA. And I said to her, Wow, I'm sorry that you're gonna go. And she said, Yeah, she was going to get her master's. And I said, Okay, great. And I said, Is there any other feedback? And I remember her kind of hesitating, and then she proceeded to tell me, and she said, you know, when I came to work for you, I was very confident. I'm now leaving the most unconfident I've ever been in my life. And that crushed me. I mean, my gosh, what was I doing? I started to realize I was a lousy manager, and here's what I did. I have high expectations, and I'm very hard on myself. So I was very critical, and I and I'm programmed to look at the problems, right? And so I realized I was lousy at appreciation, lousy at saying when things were going well. And I was thinking I'm driving her and everyone around me to keep excelling. But what I was really doing was constantly being critical, although maybe my criticisms were correct in certain points, it lost the whole frame and it lost proportion. And so I changed. And so here's the neat end to the story. She came back to work for me and she works for me today. She's fantastic. Thankfully, she forgave me. And I learned. So we got to get that feedback. And to your point, when you receive that feedback, we all grow in life, but we only grow when we hear that tough feedback.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, and then I mean, there's geez, we could spend a 30-minute conversation just on that topic right there. You've got to put people in your life, right, that are going to be candid with you and give you blunt but caring feedback. Last thing I need is, you know, people telling me how good I'm doing ultimately and and not give me any feedback on how I can grow, how I can learn. So we've got to give people permission to do that, to give us that feedback and create that safe space to your point so that we don't respond to it. But seek out those individuals who will give us the feedback that we need as well. So, so important, so important. Like I said, I could spend I could spend a lot of time talking about that.

SPEAKER_01:

And I just want to see, I know, I don't know. We're all like feeding off each other because this is like I I think and I think it really is important. It's the art of the conversation. I mean that we got to reward people for their feedback. So I see this a lot where organizations do these employee surveys or they get feedback and they don't do anything with it, or they go, Well, these are this is what the results say. Okay, great, but what are you doing with that? So it's so important, and it can't take a long time. We got to move out on it. So you getting feedback, myself getting feedback. It's one thing asking feedback, but then we got to do something with it as we've talked about. So I just want to remind people how it's really important because that's a great way to positively reinforce somebody and thank them rather than just say, thank you for sharing. Well, that doesn't do anything.

SPEAKER_00:

Steve goes back to your power continuum, right? I mean, are we truly giving them power ultimately for us to do something about? Because I can once I get that feedback as well, I can rationalize my behavior all day long. Well, I was like that because of this conditional uh type power, right? With regards to I, you know, they they treated me that way, so I turned it back around. I mean, so many different things we can rationalize, and we know rational lies is exactly what they are. But I think, you know, those those pictures, those small pictures that you drew uh inside the book, the different frameworks are so cool. One of the ones that caught my eyes, and I want to spend a little time, uh put a pen in and spend some time, was the uh energy modes that you had, the four different energy modes, uh, where you had someone who's pessimistic or optimistic, as well as an observer and/or someone who's a celebrator as well. Tell me a little bit about how that how that framework came about. I'm sure there's a story behind it as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, again, you're right. It it came out of, well, some people are optimistic, but they're quietly optimistic. Well, that doesn't necessarily help out as a leader. You have to be what we call a generator, which we'll get to in a moment. So I realize that, but let me just touch on there's a reason why I say uh optimistic and pessimistic, draw that distinction versus positive and negative. I I don't know about you, but for a long time I would teach about the value of positive thinking and and all that stuff. I would get pushback and from people that say, well, uh, who's maybe somebody negative? Well, I'm being realistic. And then I thought, well, you know, they do make a good point. They look at negative things and somebody's positive, the positive things. But then so I I realize the better distinction is optimistic and pessimistic because here's the difference. An optimistic and a pessimist, the way I see this is they both are realistic, but it's about how they view the outcome. So a pessimistic person looks at the situation and says, We're doomed. An optimistic person looks at the situation and say, We got problems, we got to work on this, but I know we can, I know there's an answer. I know we're gonna grow from it. It's just the way we view things. Well, when you look at and study leadership, as I know you have, is is leaders uh that are more optimistic and passionate about the future are more attractive to work with. I don't mean attractive in a physical way, I mean you want to follow that person. So optimistic and pessimistic is important. The other distinction on that grid, and then we'll put it all together, is being uh an observer or a generator. So some people are observers, they sit back and read the room, sounds good, but they're waiting for other people. Other people are generators. So there are people on the pessimistic side who are uh you could say observers. They don't say aren't doomers, you know, they're not gonna be real going down the uh bad situation unless other people are. But the worst people are what I call, you know, the doomers. Doomers are people walk in a room and they're ready to just say, we're messed up, it's never gonna work. So they seize the moment. But the way to counteract that is to be a booster. And forget about the words. The key is walking in a situation and before anybody else sees the moment and say, we got problems, but we're gonna figure out an answer and then get to it.

SPEAKER_00:

A generator who has optimism, absolutely, in terms of making that happen. Just love the distinction between the two. And we can, you know, Saturday Night Live can keep playing with the Debbie Downers and things like that with regards to those who are doomers. Uh, we don't need we don't need them in our life, let alone in our organizations that are that are making change or trying to make change. Steve, I appreciate this, you know, in terms of that book. And I think you know, folks would find your nine strategies to be very powerful and that they should pick up a copy of your book. Uh we've just talked about a couple of those today, as well as a couple of the frameworks. What else you got going on? What's next? What what are you working on right now?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we just actually a year ago, we launched an online system, and it's uh as far as we know, it's the only online system in which it teaches people how to be a high-achieving team. So it's a learning uh online system, but it has an AI overlay. So here's what I mean by that is you just go on the system and put in the issue, and it not only will answer that, but it actually shows which videos to watch with the team. So it's a learning model. It's not like just ChatGPT or AI, I'm not talking about that, but it's able to do that. And the reason why that's important is if you think about it, there's a lot of leadership stuff out there, there's communication stuff out there, but there's not about how anyone can create and sustain a great team. And so this system is now being used by a lot of organizations, and we're real proud about it. So if they want information, we can send that to them as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Love that. And and Steve, I'm gonna give you the last word here, the last question. But how can folks get in touch with you, learn more about your online system andor uh what you've got going on and stay connected with you?

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. So we do a lot of you know one-on-one and teamwork stuff. But if they go to justbehonest.com, so there's a lot of ways to get to our overall website, and then there's an honest communication calculator, a team elf calculator. There's a lot of stuff that they can get on there. That's no cost, but anyway, if they go to justbehonest.com, that's justbehonest.com, and they can get all that information, then contact us from there.

SPEAKER_00:

Steve will make sure to put a link to the show notes in that, folks. I would I would encourage you to go take a look at what he's got going on. I'd I'd love the the conversation about honest candor and what that really means in the frameworks that you talk about. Steve, I know that the folks have uh found some value in this. I would yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

I know I'm interrupting. I just always like to give people something. So if they if they mention your show and they go on our website, justbehonest.com, and you know there's a way to contact us, mention the show. I'll I'll send them a framework of how to have the most difficult conversations. There's nine steps, and we'll send them that framework for free. All they have to do is just go on there, mention the show, and we'll send it to them.

SPEAKER_00:

I appreciate that offer as well. Always like free stuff in terms of getting that done. And I know the listeners need help and having those types of tough conversations. We've been a great guest today. I know we could keep on talking and different topics, and I look forward to seeing even uh you've mentioned a couple other books coming out. Maybe we can connect again as those are coming out and share some of the things inside of that as well. I like to finish up my first time guest with one question. Stephen kind of lets you have the final word, if you will, with regards to sending out your message. But I'm gonna give you a billboard. You can put it anywhere you want to. What's the message you're gonna put on that billboard and why do you put that message on there?

SPEAKER_01:

Get the on. Said said the biggest problem in life is not what people say, it's what they don't say. Not only about the difficult things, but also about appreciation. People are stingy with how they appreciate and they and they and they often, when they don't know what to say, they don't say anything versus just say something and actually go ask people, get feedback. But it's all about getting the unsaid said.

SPEAKER_00:

Steve, I love that. Best wishes to you going forward. Hey folks, the I appreciate you. If you got to this point inside the conversation, that's really cool. I encourage you to share what you heard because I know you've heard something that others need to hear. So just make a copy of this link and send it out to get it in the hands of more and more folks. Also, if you get a chance to leave us a review on this podcast episode specifically, love to share that. That's how, again, we get it in the hands on this podcast episode specifically. Love more and more folks. And Steve, I just want to I want to let you know I've enjoyed this conversation today, and I hope that uh everything goes well for you in the future and look forward to staying in contact with you. Until next time, go and grow champions.

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