The Uncommon Leader Podcast
Are you ready to break free from mediocrity and lead an extraordinary life? Join us on The Uncommon Leadership Podcast as we explore the power of intentionality in personal and professional growth. Our podcast features insightful interviews with inspiring leaders from all walks of life, sharing their stories of overcoming challenges and achieving greatness.
Discover practical strategies to:
- Think positively and cultivate a growth mindset
- Live a healthy and balanced lifestyle
- Build your faith and find inner strength
- Read more and expand your knowledge
- Stay strong in the face of adversity
- Work hard with purpose and passion
- Network effectively to build meaningful relationships
- Worry less and focus on what matters
- Love always and make a positive impact
In each episode, we'll dive into relevant leadership topics, share inspiring stories, and provide actionable steps you can take to elevate your life. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey, The Uncommon Leadership Podcast offers valuable insights and practical guidance to help you achieve your goals and live your best life.
The Uncommon Leader Podcast
On A Mission to Transform American Healthcare: Zeev Neuwirth, MD's Call to Action
Welcome back, Uncommon Leaders!
Strap in for a transformative journey as we learn from healthcare executive Dr. Zeev Neuwirth with his 30-year wealth of experience and his latest book, Beyond the Walls Megatrends and Market Disruptors Transforming American Healthcare.
Drawing inspiration from his father, Dr. Neuwirth imparts that the foundation of healthcare should be treating everyone with dignity and respect, a principle that has fueled his passion throughout his career. This episode unravels three revolutionary strategies that could very well transform the American healthcare system. We also spotlight innovative entrepreneurs stretching the boundaries of the existing healthcare framework.
So tune in, let Dr. Neuwirth’s story of inspirational leadership motivate you to contribute to meaningful change.
Beyond the Walls - Megatrends, Movements, and Market Disruptors
Creating a New Healthcare Podcast
Zeev Neuwirth, MD on LinkedIn
Reframing Healthcare Website
Thanks for listening in to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode. One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review. You can do that on Apple podcasts, or rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen.
Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader Podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations ? If you would be interested in having me discuss 1:1 or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from Underperforming to Uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you. Click this link to set up a FREE CALL to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team)
Until next time, Go and Grow Champions!!
Connect with me
Hey, Uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast and I'm your host, John Gallagher. On today's episode, I have a great conversation with another Uncommon Leader, Dr Zev Neuarth, where we discuss the transformative power of leadership in healthcare. Zev Neuarth is a healthcare executive with over 15 years of clinical practice in internal medicine and another 15 years in clinical operations, quality improvement, care redesign, population health and innovation. His work to improve and transform healthcare delivery has been featured in Newsweek, Forbes, Fast Company, WebMD, the Yale School of Management Journal and in two Harvard case studies.
Speaker 1:In 2019, Dr Neuarth published his first book, Re-Framing Healthcare a roadmap for creating disruptive change. In his second book, Beyond the Walls megatrends and market disruptors transforming American healthcare, has now been released. It's already achieved top new release on Amazon in the category of hospital administration. It outlines a three-part strategy for the transformation of American healthcare and documents dozens of examples of the visionary, courageous entrepreneurs and leaders who are transcending the constraints of our current healthcare delivery system. While his new book forms the foundation of our conversation today, it's his passion and Uncommon commitment to transforming healthcare that will inspire you even more. You're going to be moved by this episode, so let's get started. Dr Zev Neuarth, welcome to the Uncommon Leader podcast. It is so great to reconnect with you and have you on the show. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:John doing great. I love seeing you and I'm so excited to be speaking with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's going to be a great conversation and I want to jump right in. I know we're going to get a chance to talk about your new book Beyond the Walls megatrends, movements and market disruptors transforming American healthcare. Before that, I'm treating you like the same I treat every other first-time guest and ask you a question. I ask him is to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are as a leader or person today.
Speaker 2:When I was growing up. My dad is an immigrant to the United States and very proud American. He's an engineer. A mechanical and electrical engineer, grew up pretty modest means but became a professional and did some amazing work in his career.
Speaker 2:One thing about my dad which was just all the time everywhere was that my dad would talk to everyone. It didn't matter where we were. If we were in the gas station, he would talk to the gas attendant. If we were at a restaurant, he would talk to the waiter or waitress, or even the bus boys or anyone. What was really remarkable to me was he treated everyone, anyone with such respect and such decency and such dignity. When we got a little older and we were teenagers, he would say to me Zev, I talked to three star generals and I talked to CEOs and I present in front of these groups as he was doing his work in engineering and design and sales of his products. He said they're just the same as anyone else. People put on their pants the same way, they struggle the same way. I believe every human being deserves and needs that sense of dignity.
Speaker 2:What I loved about what he did too, was my dad loves to talk, and that is as you'll get to see and your listeners will get to see. That is one of the attributes I did get from him. You already know that about me, john. Yes, I do. He also listened and he was a really good listener. Again, every gas station, I have to tell you, it got to be a bit much because literally we would stop at a gas station and there he was talking to the gas attendant. He could talk with that person for like 20, 30 minutes and we're like, hey, dad, we got to get going. Same thing at the restaurant, same thing on the streets. He just really, I think, saw the best in people and brought out the best in people and was curious about people. Again, it's that respect and dignity which I think has guided me throughout my entire career and actually is one of the reasons why I've taken the course I have in healthcare, because I did not see that same sentiment and same approach in healthcare delivery.
Speaker 1:I love that, and, yes, while you, while we, I do know you well enough to know that you like to talk, I also know that those positive attributes that you really talked about, the respect and dignity, are something that drew me to you when I first met you years ago, so I appreciate you sharing that story, and I'm sure that's the way you've continued, even though we haven't been working together for a few years. So let's jump into what we really came here to talk about, though, and that was your new book that's just come out. That's number one in health care delivery on Amazon right now in terms of new releases, and number one in hospital administration for new releases right now already, and as we record this episode and as I release it, it'll be the day that your book is officially released, so I know that it's an exciting time, but tell, tell the listeners of the podcast. You know why, why did you write this book and why now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know this was going back a few years, probably about seven, eight, nine years ago. You know, I've been in health care, as you know, for for decades, and as a practicing primary care physician and then a physician manager and then a physician executive, doing process improvement and quality improvement and care redesign and human centered design, and then population health and and operations, and so I've been in the Valley of the Beast for for well over 30 years, and about about nine or eight, nine years ago I I just had sort of a series of things happen where I I just realized that what we were doing was not going to get us where we needed to. We've been doing, and I've been part of this. You know movement after movement. You know bright, shiny object, science, technology, this, that, the other thing. You know thinking, operations, management, thinking that was going to get us out of the dilemma we're in. And also I just had this realization that it wasn't and that we needed to start doing something really different and in different ways and thinking differently. And so you know and you know this because I I'd done this even back when we were working together, I started to call up people around the country and around the world who were really reframing health care, who were taking a completely different orientation to the problem. They were, you know, in some sense going beyond the walls, right, literally, conceptually, you know, systemically, operationally, and and so I started to interview them, and I did this for myself and I would record these interviews and then I would study the transcripts of those and then I began to see a pattern and I wrote about that pattern in my first book reframing health care and I've continued to literally do that now, obviously with a podcast, but I've recorded and interviewed hundreds and hundreds of these beyond the wall leaders.
Speaker 2:And you know, the approach is something which the scientists call positive deviance. So this is when there are things out there that are working. And instead of trying to focus on the problem with the same sort of tools that you've been using, why don't you go out and see people who are actually solving the problem with different ways of thinking and different ways of doing it? And that's essentially what I've done. And in terms of the why and why, now you know, I think the facts are pretty straightforward the health care system is completely broken, it is not working and we're not talking about yes, there's 30 million people that are not insured in America, but there's 100 million people with severe medical debt. 100 million over 40% of Americans are carrying medical debt which is destroying their lives, and I would say that the vast majority, over 80%, struggle with medical care. In fact, there was a recent report I saw that said in the last year was it was a, it was a national poll In the last year, 50% of Americans who were surveyed said that they either deferred, delayed, avoided medication or medical care because they couldn't afford it 50%. So we're talking about a system that is unaffordable and unattainable for the majority of Americans and it's getting worse.
Speaker 2:And you know we could talk about the inequities and disparities in care where literally people across the country are living less shorter lives than people in third world countries. We're talking about maternal fetal mortality rate, which is the same as it was in the Civil War era for black women and black children. You know, on and on and on. We're talking about the fact that you know, 50% of people with high blood pressure are not appropriately treated and don't have it under control. Over 90% of people with heart failure are not appropriately treated and don't have it under control. The system's not working. We're talking about 50% of doctors who are burnt out and demoralized. People are calling it moral injury. I mean, that's what the literature is calling it. So it's not working for providers, the people in the system, and it's clearly not working for the American public, who the system should be serving.
Speaker 2:And so could we keep on going and doing the same things and saying, let's do it harder and faster and do it bigger? No, I don't think so. I think that's foolishness. We really need to reorient. So the time is now. The time is. You know, every expert I've talked to has said the same thing, every single one, without exception the system is not working and it's unsustainable, it's off the tracks and we're heading for something catastrophic, and you know. And so it's imperative, it's an existential issue which, again, so many of the experts I talked to talk about, that it's a moral obligation for leaders.
Speaker 2:And so in the book, I don't talk about problems. I don't talk about, you know, the past. What I'm talking about is dozens and dozens of courageous, bold, innovative leaders that are taking a completely different approach, bringing new ideas that are actually working. Why don't we actually study them and look at what they're doing, invest in that and scale them? And that's the approach I've taken, which I think is incredibly inspiring, incredibly hopeful, incredibly practical. And, by the way, cmmi does the same exact thing. They use a positive deviance approach. So the federal government is trying to take that, and so does the VA system, which is probably the test kitchen for innovation in American health care.
Speaker 1:So, thank you, thank you so much for sharing that, and I would say that is a fairly monumental reason for action. But what I love about what you said at the very end, you said there is hope and there are leaders who are doing something about it. It feels like David versus Goliath at times in terms of the size of the problem, but there are leaders who are doing it. Inside of your book, you're portraying leaders who have those approaches. Is there any one story of a leader that really sticks out to you, that you wrote about, that you're proud of?
Speaker 2:Wow. You know, the great thing, john, is that, as you point out and there are dozens, if not hundreds, that I wish I could share with you, and again, in the book Beyond the Walls, I share these hopeful, inspiring, informing and real, real leaders who are doing real things now. So it's not hypothetical, it's not academic, it's not research. This is really happening in the open market, and some of them just to be very clear, some of this is happening within traditional health care, hospital systems, provider groups. As I mentioned, the VA is just on fire. They're doing amazing work there. But so it's not just the entrepreneurs who, again, I take my hat off to the entrepreneurs who have gone beyond the walls, but it's really people who are outside of the walls and behind the walls, these beyond-the-wall thinkers and leaders that are working together. And, again, that's why it's so hopeful. And I will say this I talk to a lot of my contemporaries and, john, you probably know this as well A lot of people are jaded. They've been in the business for 20, 30 years, and even the younger folks, and they're burnt out, they're jaded, they're demoralized. I tell you, john, and you and I have worked a long time ago together I have never, ever in my entire career, been more inspired, more hopeful, because I have been making it my business to listen to these beyond-the-wall leaders and all we have to do is really create that. And it's a movement. It really is and should be a movement, which is what I'm excited about A story. There's so many.
Speaker 2:Look, there were a couple of researchers and who came out of the VA and I have to take my hat off to them because I began my career in the VA system many, many years ago and they were noticing when they were teaching doctors, and they noticed that their students, their residents, were coming back and telling them okay, listen, this is a patient, 55-year-old, with these medical problems, and here's the solution. I think they came back and then talked to the patient and they started to hear something which had no language, had no ideation, there was nothing to even call it back then. But it was like when they started to actually hear the patient's lives, they realized that the context of the patient's lives would not allow for that strictly clinical medical approach to work. It just wouldn't have worked. The patient's lives, whether it was the resources they did or didn't have, it just wasn't gonna work and so they didn't have a name for this, and so they started to literally study this problem and they recorded literally, over the past 20 years, over 6,000 doctor-patient visits. And they not only recorded them, videotaped them, they actually coded them in a radically new way, and what they discovered and coined was something called contextual care. And they said you know what? There are a few factors that we keep on seeing. They actually have 12 factors, so it's not 100, 12 factors. They call them these contextual errors or these contextual barriers, and if you identify them in the conversation with people, with patients, you can actually identify them, you can actually explore them and you actually have solution sets for each of them. And so over the past two decades, they have studied this, they have published repeatedly in bonafide medical journals, they've written books about it, and now they're taking these contextual barriers and they've embedded it in a state-of-the-art AI-enabled care management system with protocol. So the machinery is actually picking up these contextual factors. As the care managers and clinicians are talking to the patients and their families through natural language processing and other ways, they're picking up these contextual factors, they're triggering the team to notice them, they're actually helping the team explore them and they are actually embedded solution sets to actually help the care management teams and clinicians deal with these contextual factors. And they're beginning to show outcomes in terms of now what they've demonstrated outcomes before, but now they're showing it embedded in automation, state-of-the-art automation and technology, and they're showing reduced hospitalizations, reduced readmissions, reduced cost of care, improved outcomes of care.
Speaker 2:It is such a brilliant story. I spent a whole chapter in my book talking about this story because it is so powerful. And again, these entrepreneurs came out of the VA system. They came out of the belly of the beast, which again, I find so, so inspiring. And again for me, john, I don't like the blame game. We are in the healthcare system. I see, in fact, people using military words and warring and blaming and pointing fingers. Let's not do that. People who are outside the walls and inside the walls we've got to gather here and this is one of the best stories I've seen in terms of really humanizing healthcare using state-of-the-art technology.
Speaker 1:I love that utilizing technology, along with the leadership qualities that go along with that. I can't wait to read some of these stories. I know they're gonna be really cool and when I get the copy of my hands, I wanna ask you you mentioned some of the leaders that you come across. In terms of what's happening in industry. They're burnout you use the term jaded demoralized as well. The stories and the leaders who are carrying those things forward as leaders. Listening to this podcast, what are the qualities that you see in those leaders that allow them to, in essence, overcome the challenge that is healthcare, that they're actually able to transform healthcare? What are their qualities?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really great question. I'm going to be totally honest with you, I think, what attracted me to I'm going to be honest with you and throughout completely transparent, rather because I've been honest, but I don't know that I have a great answer yet to your question. But I will tell you this that I've been interviewing these courageous, bold leaders for now close to a decade, and the things they're doing, and again so many stories come to mind. I literally could spend the next few days with you. Just one story after another after another, just amazingly positive things that are happening in healthcare here and across the globe. But what excited me about these interviews, and what's really inspired me and kept me going, is that these folks were not only reorienting and reframing healthcare delivery, they were reorienting and reframing themselves. It was a level of integrity which, I have to tell you, I admire from a distance, because I'm not sure that I actually have attained that level of integrity and leadership yet. But they weren't staying the same. They actually had to transform themselves in order to transform what they were doing, and no one ever taught me that. I've never seen that in any leadership book or text and it wasn't the typical. Here's what a leader does, and here are the skills and here are the talents. It was really just a openness and a courage and an integrity to say I've got to change. Concrete example of that Sean Duffy.
Speaker 2:In Harvard Medical School, in Harvard Business School. I write about him and so many others like him. There he is on Longwood Avenue in Boston. You know premier medical school, premier business school. He's getting a dual degree and he sees that people are coming into the Longwood area to hospitals every single day, into clinics every single day, and he says you know what, with the technology we have and this was back in 2008 or 2009, so this is not like today or yesterday, this was over a dozen years ago he says we have the technology now. This is wrong. We need to bring healthcare to people using the technology. And so what does he do? And again, talk about integrity, talk about conviction, talk about commitment.
Speaker 2:He leaves Harvard Business School and he leaves Harvard Medical School and he goes and he studies digital technology. He literally takes a year or two to go study that, to work in a company. So he trains himself and then he goes and he works at IDEO to learn how to do design and product development. Who does that? Who has that level of conviction and commitment? You know it's like I believe healthcare should be this way. I'm actually going to change my life and change myself in order to make myself a better leader for what I believe we need. And he goes and he does that. And then he creates Omada, a company, one of the most brilliant, trailblazing digital health companies.
Speaker 2:And again, I can tell you story after story after story of leaders. You know Chris Chen from Chen Med, a cardiologist. You know Harvard trained, cornell trained, rather. You know cardiologists brilliant, could have done anything, could have made any amount of money. You wanted to completely left that to do primary care to serve the frail, poor, elderly people in a radically new way. You know, using Medicare Advantage payment, completely transformed primary care Again. Who does that? You know who does that Beyond the wall leaders.
Speaker 1:Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations on? If you would be interested in having me discuss one on one or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from underperforming to uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you. Click the link in the show notes to set up a free call to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team. Now back to the show. Amen, brother.
Speaker 1:So transparency it was. You just talked yourself into those qualities, right, courage, integrity, commitment, conviction those are huge, okay, but what I, what I hear in terms of reframing self is humility as well, though that I don't know it all. And then I've got to transform myself to be able to transform this process and understand it. So you know your previous book, reframing healthcare absolutely have to reframe yourself and who you are as a leader. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing, frankly, the passion in which you shared it. Right, you've got to have conviction, you've got to have some level of thick skin to try and fight the system that is healthcare delivery today and all the things that that keep it from going forward. You know I hear that passion and I know you wrote this book and you want the people that read this book.
Speaker 1:So oftentimes, like you see, we're not doing video, but you see the books on the back of my shelf People read a book that put it up on the shelf, but the one year test is when they look at that book and they say I remember a story from that book. This is how it made me feel, this is what it made me think and this is what it made me do this book right here. I can put it in one sentence what do you want the readers of this book to feel? What do you want them to think? What do you want them to do after they've read this book? Come on into the video.
Speaker 2:Well, first, I wrote the book for lots of folks, but specifically for leaders, and I've talked to some colleagues who are not sure leadership is ready for this book. I actually disagree. I think leadership is ready. I've seen it. It is a catalyst for leaders. I think people, if you read it, I can't imagine you won't be inspired. I can't imagine you won't be informed. I can't imagine, quite honestly, that you won't walk away with at least one or two or three ideas that you yourself can implement today where you are and that's what I want people to do is you know, clearly, the inspiration is going to be there. I've already had feedback. I handed the book out to about 100, 120 people and I've gotten tremendous feedback. People are so inspired, but I think they'll also be informed and real life examples, and so I wrote those real life examples in there. These are the exemplars.
Speaker 2:This is, you know, again, the positive deviance we could pick up. Whether it doesn't matter, you know what your situation is, what your profession, you know there is something you can pick up from the book that you could literally start to do the next day or start to implement. I mean, I think even just sending the message out there. Even, you know, getting the book. You, john, even before we got on, you said I'm going to take this book and hand it out to, you know, two or three friends immediately. Even that is an action, right, creating the spreading the narrative, spreading the inspiration, spreading the information. That is a positive step, because if we don't do that, you know, then it's just, it just disappears into ether. This has got to be that. You know, in the epilogue to the book, I actually do have a call to action and I share a couple of stories which I think are important. You know, first of all, I just addressed the issue. You know, what can I do? You can do a lot. I mean, you know, people say to me, you know, I even asked myself, like you know, is what I'm doing worth anything? Like, what am I doing Right? Well, I mean, I'm at, you know, I have this podcast, like you, and I'm getting out the message out to thousands and thousands of people. And you know, even if I reach one person, one person who can change something, oh my God.
Speaker 2:You know, I was at a conference in Boston about a month or so ago and some, some guy, ran up to me and he said oh, my God, are you Zeph Neweath? And I was like, yeah, he goes. I read your book Reframing Healthcare completely changed my thinking, completely changed my career, completely changed everything for me. And he was so excited. He ran home, got the book, brought it back to the conference, you know, asked me to sign it, and I was, you know so. So you know it was wonderful. But then I found out who he was and what he did. This guy is like the chief medical officer for Medicaid for the entire state of Massachusetts and I asked people about him. He's amazing. I mean, people love him. They just and look at that and here's something I wrote which affected someone we don't know. When you hand the book, I mean, if you work in healthcare organization, get this book to your C-suite, get this book to your board members, because the board members have to read this book. They have to understand the three domains I'm talking about. If we don't do these three domains, we will not get out of the dilemma. It is a comprehensive approach that I outline with real life examples, and so you know what can I do. You know, if you want, if you don't know, call me up or email me after you read the book and I'll be happy to talk to you about what you can do.
Speaker 2:This issue also is this and I talk about this in the epilogue, john, you know this. I've been talking about this for quite some time, when things in healthcare were amazing and people were making crazy money and revenue. You know, just coming in and I would talk to groups and they would say to me Zev, listen, you know we can't change now. And I would say why? And they would say things are too good to change. Why would we change anything? Why would we do something new? Why would we go beyond the walls? Why would we reframe? Now we're making so much money, okay, that's great.
Speaker 2:And then now, when things aren't as great and the revenue isn't as forthcoming, and you know hospital systems and other healthcare systems are kind of in a quasi-survival mode, and you know money is tight, and so now I hear well, zev, you can't expect us to reframe, you can't expect us to go beyond the walls, you can't expect us to humanize healthcare. And so you know, the problem is this it's never the right time, it's never the good time to change. You know and John, you taught me this years ago leaders don't. Their conviction, their commitment is not dependent on the current moment. You can't let it be. It cannot, it cannot deter you.
Speaker 2:True leaders understand that they have to transcend the current moment. They have to say this is what we have to do, this is the hill we have to take, this is what we have to accomplish, not tomorrow or the day after that, but literally now, and with whatever means we have, we will do it. Because you know something it's never the perfect time to change, and so that's what I would say to folks is the time is now, the time is past. Now, quite honestly, I shared with you the information, the data it's pretty evident the reason why. And you know what can you do? There's a thousand things you could do. The first one is read the book.
Speaker 1:Zev, you told me you were fired up when we got on this call. You have been man. This is great. I love it Absolutely. Just a little bit of a turn here as we get up in our time and I want to respect your time and I so appreciate what you already have invested with the listeners of the Uncommon Leader podcast. The proceeds from your book you're donating to Feeding America. Tell me about that. How'd you decide to do that as well? I didn't really tell you. I was going to ask you that, but I saw that. I read about it. What's there for?
Speaker 2:you, I wanted to donate the proceeds from the first book to a nonprofit, and so when the second book was, when I saw that it was going to happen, I thought about this long and hard, and I just a bunch of reasons. One is, first of all, feeding America. It's heartbreaking to think that so many people in our country and it's not a small number don't have enough food, and especially for me, it's the children. It breaks my heart and so it's a good cause, right, and there are lots of other organizations I could have contributed to in the same area of Feeding America, but I chose this one.
Speaker 2:And the other issue is this for me, I don't practice clinical medicine anymore and I see friends and family members who are clinicians and physicians and they do these mission trips and I guess I could go and help and do nonclinical stuff.
Speaker 2:But for me I thought to myself wow, this is my mission trip, I'm going to take my proceeds and this is going to be my mission is to, as I go out and I do talks and I hopefully the book will be read and sold.
Speaker 2:And again, I really believe, john, this book needs to be in the hands, the hearts and the heads of every single leader in American healthcare, in every domain whether you're in a hospital system, a provider group, pharmaceutical industry, medical device industry, insurance industry, pbms, the federal government, state governments this book needs to be in their hands. They have to understand what it is. We need to do, what is working, what we need to really resource and change policy and healthcare around. That's my mission, and I'm not talking about a few thousand. I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of people who need to read this book, and part of the reason that I donated it is because I feel so, so good about saying that and telling people. That's my mission and I want them to make it their mission and to know that I'm not going to make one cent off of that. This is about my mission and I want others to make it their mission. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Seth Appreciate that Folks know where they can get the book Amazon, barnes, noble, all those different outlets that sell books. You can go anywhere to find it. But how can they find you, seth? Where should folks stay in touch with you and learn more about you?
Speaker 2:Well, the podcast is one. I'm on LinkedIn. Actually, that's probably the fastest way. If you just go to LinkedIn and you message me, I promise you, if I'm on which I am pretty much every day I will get back to you. I promise you that. So LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to find me. Very cool.
Speaker 1:Thank you, zev. I'll put that link in there as well for LinkedIn. Okay, finishing up, I only have one more question for you, zev. Again, I appreciate you investing the time with us. It's the same question. I always ask the first-time guests on the podcast as well, and I think you're going to have something passionate to tell me again, let's bring it, but I'm going to give you a billboard. You can put anything on it that you want to. Okay, you can tell everybody the message you're trying to get out there. What do you put on that billboard and why?
Speaker 2:Listen, one word, listen. You're asking me, john, before about leadership, and I think the most powerful leaders bar none not just in healthcare but across the board this is what I've witnessed is just our incredible listeners. And they hear not just the story but the story behind the story, and they hear the soul behind the story behind the story and they hear the spirit of it. And I think listening is the thing we need to do. In fact, in that story I was telling you about contextual care, there was a great quote which I'm going to really mess up now. But to really help someone ask a question, to really help someone just ask a question, it's such a profound, it was taught by one clinician to another clinician.
Speaker 2:I think, actually, it's more like to really show you care about someone, ask them a question, and not a biased question, not a predetermined question, but a real question. And I heard something else even this week I was talking to another phenomenal beyond the walls leader, and he quoted something around. You know, instead of being experts with answers and this goes to your leadership question instead of being experts with answers, why don't we become catalysts with questions? Don't you love that? I do, I know right. Instead of being experts with answers, let's become catalysts with questions. And so you do that. You show people, you care for them by asking open questions and real questions to inquire and learn and appreciate about them. I tell you, if we did that, it would change the world.
Speaker 1:Well, I think this book has a chance to get a start on that journey, so if I'm looking forward to reading it myself, I do Once again thank you for investing the time with the Uncommon Leader Podcast, and I wish you the best. Let's stay in touch.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. Thank you so much, john. Such a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Well, that's all for today's episode of the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Thanks for listening in. Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode. One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review. You can do that on Apple Podcasts or you can rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen. Until next time, go and grow champions.
